How refreshing it is to have a president who carefully considers all sides of an issue as important as Afghanistan before making a decision. President Barack Obama is taking his time and trying to understand just what has a chance of actually working.
We can’t just try to bomb people into submission, especially when there is a chance a significant portion of the population might be turned with the right action — maybe not into friends but maybe into people who won’t feel a need to view us as the enemy.
It makes me really proud. Lead on, Mr. President.
Yes, he is either delaying the decision after the New Jersey and Virginia elections or he is delaying the decision after big votes on health care reform.
Leadership in action or is it....leadership in-action.
If he is going to this crap then he should just bring everybody home.
55 dead this month with no backup coming for the spread thin unsupported forces.
Caution? It is not caution, the fool has no idea what he is doing.
Meanwhile, American troops are dying while Obama plays politics with their lives.
The truth about the Vietnam war, unlike the broken record lying propaganda of raving mandingo, whom I doubt was even there.
http://www.vvof.org/factsvnv.htm
Got to echo RHG. If you are going to leave our troops hanging, get them out of there.
We are in the middle of a thirty five year old civil war, which we cannot fix.
BRING EM HOME Mr. President!
The inexperience and incompetence is really showing on this dolt of a leader. He is accomplished at sitting on the fence. Make a decision moron.
I am glad this wailer it is refreshing to have the President refresh himself with a round of golf and a game or two of basketball, while our troops are in harms way and dying.
That's really refreshing....
Sure, Obama wants us to think he is a president of peace.
I can't believe how ignorant people are. You all just want to believe that Obama is Jesus Christ!
Obama is a KILLER and a COWARD who has no intention of stopping his blood for oil war mongering. Obama was chosen to carry on the US raid for oil and Obama will KILL many more innocnet people to accomplish this crap. He is continuing what Bush did and if you believe he is some kind of peace loving saint, I'll bet you fell for all his lies.
If you oppose war, just go to Indian Springs, Nevada. It has grown and incresed operations seemingly ten fold since Obama took office.
If you support President Obama, you support the war on terror, murder of innoncent people including children the military calls Taliban.If you actually think he is more peaceful than George W. Bush, you are a fool who probably believes everything you hear on CNN...
According to Department of Defense websites a total of 58,193 American soldiers died in the Viet Nam war. Of these 7,264 black which is 12.5%. I don't know where some posters get their information but they are either being lied to or are lieing themselves. Maybe he's getting his figures from the DNC or the NAACP but the Defense Department is the most accurate.
A lot of Republicans are named as avoiding the war but There were many more Democrat cowards who outright ran away. Blubbo Clinton ran off to Europe and committed treason. I understand they could not get Teddy Kennedy to sober up long enough to get through the physical exam.
I don't see military service listed in Barney Frank's biography. Chris Dud went into the reserve, similar to Mr Bush going into the national guard, But Dud never truly served his country. Mr Biden got two deferments and finally was classified as unfit to serve in the military. Nancy Pelosi and Babs Boxer were both involved in the antiwar movement in California calling the troops murders and cowards.
I could go on for pages and pages but if you do a little research you will find out the Democrats were the real cowards and hated this country with a passion. With the election of Comrade Obama I forsee a much bigger haterid of this country and its government in the near future.
I keep reading references to the Vietnam War in the discussions about the current war in Afghanistan. I, like many others fear that this war could turn into another quagmire like Vietnam, where now, thirty years after we left 58,000 dead troopers and we left with our tails between our legs, American travel agencies are conducting guided tours of Ho Chi Mhin city. If we are in Afghanistan to build a nation, it will take a hell of a lot more in men and materiels than we now have there or plan to commit. Keep in mind that Afghanistan is not known as the "land where armies go to die" for no reason.
Alexander the Great could not conquer it. The Brits, one hundred and fifty years ago, spent decades, millions of pounds and the lives of thousands extremely disciplined and professional soldiers in what is now Afghanistan for essentially nothing. They finally gave up and retreated back across the Khyber Pass into Northwest India. The Russians, to their discredit, using poorly trained recruits and conscripts did the same thing in the 1970's and 80's. Both of these major powers tried to institute governments in Kabul patterned after their own. The present government in Kabul is as corrupt as that in Iraq, if not more so. Nation building is difficult enough with inspiring people to lead the way, with strongmen and tyrants in the positions of power, it's a losing game.
If we are going to do it, let's do it right and send in the troops, armor and air assets needed to do the job.We can't leave our guys hanging. They deserve better than that. Their thoughts every day are "complete the mission, then get my buddies and me back home safely". In Vietnam, and I was there, the feelings , especially among the grunts in the latter stages of the war were " I don't know what I am doing here, I have to do what I am told, but my main concern is getting the hell out of here and back to the world with my skin in one piece".
I have heard over and over that the best thing we got out of Vietnam was "Lessons Learned". I agree, assuming that lessons learned means "never do such a dumb-ass thing again". I also learned after thirty years in the military that lessons learned meetings after an operational disaster almost always turn into an exercise in institutional scab-picking, and seldom result in anything constructive except to make the leadership feel like they are accomplishing something.
As I said at the first of this long dissertation, my main concern is that we could be in Afghanistan for many years and many bodies to come, and I fear that if President Obama does not give it every consideration and then get it right, it could turn into a real debacle.
No caution here, just political calculation. More concern for his political base than for his troops in harms way. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME
Hey Frank: It's a good thing that people did not think like you on 12/08/41 or we would not even be here today YOU LOSER.
Stand aside, Libs, and let those with 'nads do what needs to be done. You can thank us later.
Ah yes, the Republican Hate Machine in full force!
Did they criticize Bush's frequent vacations during wartime? No, they defended them.
Bush spent all or part of 487 days at Camp David during his Presidency, the great majority of which were during wartime.
Bush spent all or part of 490 days at his vacation retreat in Texas during his Presidency, the great majority of which were during wartime.
Republicans dismissed it and voted him back into office, and back in command of a failed effort in Afghanistan that the current administration is trying to fix.
SHAME, SHAME, SHAME.
The President, regardless of where or who he is, whether in Camp David, Crawford Texas, Martha's Vineyard, South Chicago, or flying in Air Force-1, has the same resources at hand to do the job of President as he does in the White House. He is in instant communications with all his advisors, cabinet heads and generals and can deal with whatever comes up depending on his skills or in Obama's case, lack thereof.
I would have no desire whatsoever to be president but if I were in that position I would spend as little time in that cesspool of Washington D.C. as is humanly possible. The stench in the air is unbearable and everything goes down from there.
Here's edgewise and all of his spin...
These guys on the left just can't figure it out...
When Bush was on vacation, his troops in the field weren't waiting for him to make a decision on whether or not to support them.
Obama is a complete failure as a commander in chief...
Instead of increasing troop strength in Afghanistan as advised by his generals and his Secretary of Defense, Obama is spending his valuable time that should be spent on making some type of decision on Afghanistan in surging his attacks on FOX NEWS.
The Obama Administration is doing everything it can to pull our troops out to cater to those on the far left.
The whole world, including Iran and North Korea is watching Obama and planning their next move.
The Administration not listening to it's generals and Secretary of Defense.
The Administration taking money from the defense budget to build a tribute to Ted Kennedy.
Here's LarryVegas and all of his spin...
These Republicans just can't figure it out...
Bush took his eye off the prize. He let the Afghanistan mission fail while he pursued a war of choice in Iraq.
George Bush and the Republican party's failures will continue to haunt the United States for decades.
It's too bad that Obama can't keep his eye on the "prize." Obama is allowing the Afghanistan mission to fail while he "plays his fiddle."
Barak Obama and his failure in Afghanistan will haunt the WORLD for decades...
More spin from LarryVegas. He won't acknowledge Bush's failure in Afghanistan.
Obama's presidency isn't over, but that won't stop the Republican Hate Machine from declaring it a failure 9 months in to the term. They hate him that much.
If Afghanistan fails, the Obama Administration and those who support Obama's inaction, will place the blame on Bush.
Of course, they would like to forget that Obama said that Afghanistan was the just war. Oh, you say that was during the election and Obama really didn't mean that. He just wanted to win the election.
Our men and women are dying in Afghanistan while Obama seeks military advice from his keepers over at "Move On.Com."
Yes the Republicans and also a lot of people who voted for Obama hate him. He has proven himself to be a hardcore freedom hating socialist who's beliefs are contrary to what made America the best country on earth. If he gets his way this country will end up like Europe where they have little personal freedom and most of what you earn is taken from you to support their crappy government. Europe is a tyrannical cesspool where government sumhuman dregs control everything you do and you almost have to get a government permit to go to the bathroom. That is why we revolted in 1776 and that might have to happen again soon.
edgewise: What time is the president's tee time today?
I understand his handicap has gone down since taking office.
LarryVegas is still in denial.
Bush started a war and couldn't finish it.
Bush failed to have a successful strategy.
Bush failed to maintain the proper troop level for years.
Bush failed to get Pakistan's cooperation in fighting the terrorists for years.
Bush failed to properly equip our troops for combat in Afghanistan.
In April 2008, two months before he assumed command in Kabul, McKiernan traveled to Afghanistan for a get-acquainted visit. Within days, he concluded that there were not enough troops to contend with the intensifying Taliban insurgency.
At the time, the United States had about 33,000 military personnel in the country, about a third of them assigned to combat operations. The rest were in supporting roles. About 30,000 were from the other 42 nations in the NATO-led force, but many had been deployed with onerous rules that prevented their involvement in counterinsurgency activities.
Even more worrisome was a lack of other resources needed to win a war: helicopters, transport aircraft, surveillance drones, interpreters, intelligence analysts. Troops in Afghanistan had a fraction of what they required.
"There was a saying when I got there: If you're in Iraq and you need something, you ask for it," McKiernan said in his first interview since being fired. "If you're in Afghanistan and you need it, you figure out how to do without it."
By late last summer, he decided to tell George W. Bush's White House what he knew it did not want to hear: He needed 30,000 more troops. He wanted to send some to the country's east to bolster other U.S. forces, and some to the south to assist overwhelmed British and Canadian units in Helmand and Kandahar provinces.
The Bush administration opted not to act on McKiernan's request and instead set out to persuade NATO allies to contribute more troops.
Hate to say, I told you so, but I told you that those on the Left would be blaming the current situation in Afghanistan on the Bush Administration.
So, don't blame Obama for his failure to make a decision on Afghanistan, its all Bush's fault.
Larry, stop avoiding reality.
The reason Obama has to make a decision is due to Bush's failure.
Open your eyes and stop denying Bush's failed leadership in Afghanistan.
I read the comments by the Obama-hating LarryVegas and his ilk, and consider the bilge they spew with a grain of salt. Nothing I or anyone else with a modicum of intelligence can say will change their set-in-stone dislike of Obama and anything Democratic or "Liberal", as they love to paint anyone who is not in lock-step with their extreme right-wingnut views. As for Afghanistan, they are blaming him for failures for which he has no ownership. The sad situation in which we find ourselves in as Obama tries to find a reasonable way out of this mess is a direct result of the failure of the previous administration to pursue the war they had launched in that country.
To give George Bush credit, he did start out the Afghan war in an effective manner. He dispatched small teams of Special Forces, CIA operatives and other clandestine forces into the country to hunt down the people who had attacked us on 9/11, al-Qaida's Osama bin Ladin and the Taliban who supported him. These small groups of warriors, reinforced by a few battalions of Airborne and Rangers dropped into strategic locations such as Kandahar, the capital of Taliban controlled Helmand Province, and supported by the extremely precise and devastating use of dedicated air power soon had bin Ladin and the Taliban on the run. We established a provisional government in Kabul, and things were looking up. Then came Iraq.
The unwise and unnecessary invasion of Iraq doomed the Afghan war to probable failure. The incursion into Iraq meant that an immediate shift of effort and, more importantly, resources to the Iraq theater. The Afghan war went to the back burner and the war-fighting materials required to sustain the war effort were diverted to Iraq. The air- and man-power, helicopters, armor, vehicles, artillery, and all of the other bullets and beans required to fight a war were now headed to Iraq. So, the Bush administration's strategic objectives in Iraq meant a stranglehold on the supplies and fighting men that should have been available to the commanders in Afghanistan, and the few assets we had operating in Afghanistan were left to whither and die on the vine.
For LarryVegas and the rest to blame Obama for this situation is disingenious to say the least and a flat out lie at most. Those decisions were Bush's, not Obamas's. Now Obama has to figure out a way to pull Bush/Cheney's nuts out of the fire. To not give him a chance to do this is stupid, short-sighted, and typical of the ignorance predominant in the leadership of the current Republican Party (Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, Et al.)today.
23, I didn't know Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity were in political offices. Which states do they represent and who elected them?
Of course they are not elected to any office, and that is why it is so sad that these opinionated talking heads hold such sway over the real elected officials that pretend to represent the GOP. Listen to Hannity spew his hate one night and hear Mitch McConnell or John Boeaner (you know, the guy with the painted-on suntan) repeat the same themes the next day. Republicans who seemingly have the cajones to critisize Limbaugh one day grovel at his feet in apologetic agony the next. With friends like those, who needs enemies?
(Removed by the site staff)
Typical. You and LarryVegas should take your act on the road. You both sound like graduates of the Glenn Beck School of Deep Thinking. Shameful.
HEAR ME, MY CHILDREN ...
I HAVE GIVEN TO THEE, THOU MOST MAGNIFICENT OF PEOPLES OF ALL THE PEOPLES ON MY MAGNIFICENT PLANET, THE POWER AND WITH IT, THE ENORMOUS RESPONSIBILITY TO GOVERN AND TO KEEP FROM HARM ALL THE REST OF HUMANKIND. IN MY GREAT WISDOM, I GAVE YOU THE POWER OF THE ATOM TO DO WITH AS YOU MAY. NOW I SAY TO YOU, THE LAND AND THE PEOPLES OF AFGHANISTAN ARE AN ABOMINATION TO ME. DO NOT PROCRASTINATE. DO NOT DEBATE. DO NOT DELAY. I HEREBY COMMAND YOU TO TAKE BUT A TITHING'S 10 PERCENT OF YOUR THERMONUCLEAR ARSENAL, A MERE 262 H-BOMBS, AND DELIVER THEM TO ALL THE CORNERS OF THAT DESPISED NATION.
DO NOT DESPAIR FOR THE FEW INNOCENTS THAT WILL SURELY PERISH ALONG WITH THE MILLIONS OF SINNERS. I PROMISE TO SORT THOSE FEW NOBLE SOULS FROM THE REST AND APOLOGIZE.
NOW GO AND DO MY BIDDING!!
Bigb shows just how ugly the rhetoric from the Republicans has become. If you believe that wartime decisions deserve deliberation, then you "like it when American children are sent home in body bags."
To the contrary, bigb. We want to see a strategy for success in Afghanistan, and don't want to unnecessarily risk American lives.
Maybe George Bush should have kept that in mind when he forgot about the war he began in Afghanistan.
It didn't take Franklin Roosevelt one year to figure out if he was going to reinforce our troops in the field or pull them all back to the continental U.S.
Harry Truman did not have to wait one year to decide whether he should go all out and wind the war or arrange a cease fire and pull our troops out. How may troops would have been killed and injured invading Japan if it took Truman one year to decide if he should drop the bomb and end the war.
Harry Truman also did not wait one year to decide whether he wanted to back up our troops in Korea or let them all die in the Pusan perimeter. Truman also did not pull our troops out when the Chinese entered the war. He fought to win.
Ike Eisenhower did not wait one year to decide if he was going to continue with the current operations in Korea or not give them any support and pull them out.
John F. Kennedy did not take one year to decide that action was necessary during the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Even Jimmy Carter did not wait one year to decide that military action was needed to rescue our hostages in Iran. If you recall, Carter basically stayed in the White House the entire time the hostages were being held working on solutions to the crisis.
Ronald Reagen did not wait one year before rescuing U.S. students in Grenada.
George H. Bush did not take a year to decide how he would react to the Kuwait invasion by Iraq.
Bill Clinton did not wait a year before he decided on a plan for Bosnia.
George W. Bush did not take a year deciding what to do after 9/11.
But I guess Barak Obama is just too busy to make a timely decision on Afghanistan, even after his top Generals and Secretary of Defense has given him their expert advice.
edgewise... The reason Obama has not made a decision in Afghanistan is because his left wing handlers has not given him the OK. They all are still pandering to Move on dot.com. Maybe Obama is waiting for Bush to hold his hand...
bigdon... I am surprised at your comments being a Navy veteran who has served under John Paul Jones. Leaving your troops in harms way and not either reinforcing them or pulling them out.
A Commander in Chief who can not make a decision is not a commander but a quisling.
edgewise has his own Bush doctrine. If anything goes wrong ever, blame it on George Bush.
edgewise probably blames George Bush for the failure of Global Warming to kill out the Polar Bears as Al Gore predicts.
I bet edgewise even blames his own sexual inadequacies on George Bush.
The sideways logic of the Republican Party on display.
"Barak Obama is just too busy to make a timely decision on Afghanistan, even after his top Generals and Secretary of Defense has given him their expert advice."
9 minutes later...
"The reason Obama has not made a decision in Afghanistan is because his left wing handlers has not given him the OK."
According to LarryVegas, he's too busy, but has a recommendation from his generals and advisors, but hasn't been told what to do by his generals and advisors.
He doesn't even realize that he completely contradicted himself in record time.
For all those out there who think that I am an Obama hater...
I don't hate Obama or anyone else... There's some people I could care less for, but I don't hate them.
Obama did not have any problems stating that Afghanistan was the just war during his election campaign. But now he just can't make a decision to support our troops that are in the field and in harms way.
I just think that Obama has let us all down and particularly the military. You can let me down because I will get over it. But when you let down the military, I get really upset.
LarryVegas, it is obvious that you hate Obama.
You think he needs to "support our troops." I'm assuming that means you think he needs to increase the number of troops, right?
So why do you let Bush skate by without even so much as a sentence of criticism? Instead, you try to change the subject and blame everything on Obama.
The FACT is: Obama wouldn't have to make a decision at all if Bush and Cheney had done their jobs. The longer you overlook the cause of the problem, the more foolish you look.
Obama voted the anti war position on every piece of legislation that came before him when he was Senator. So why are we surprised that Obama can't make a decision to put more troops in Afghanistan.
Obama hopes that between our troop loses and instability in the Afghanistan government, he might get public opinion behind him so he can pull our troops out and leave Afghanistan to the Taliban and Al-Qaeda.
Kinda reminds me of the Viet Nam pullout...
Why do you let Bush skate by without even so much as a sentence of criticism?
Bush is no longer the President. It is Obama's war...
Obama said Afghanistan was the just war...
If Obama didn't want it, or was not prepared to handle it, why did he run for President.
I don't care if he puts more troops in or pulls them all out...
JUST DO SOMETHING!!!
Sunlizard tells us: "Obama is a KILLER and a COWARD who has no intention of stopping his blood for oil war mongering."
OBAMA is a coward?! Okay, Sunlizard, if you're so big and brave, stop hiding behind a pseudonym and do all your posts under your real name. Show us who's the coward.
So you think Bush's decisions have no bearing on the current circumstances in Afghanistan?
Wow. You're clueless.
The Bush apologists really have to reach far to justify their delusions. LarryVegas is an example of that.
This whole mess was started by George Bush
invading the wrong country, Iraq.
We will never forget that fact.
Hey ksand99... I don't apologize for George Bush or any other politician.
But I can tell you and your buddies on the Left that Afghanistan belongs to Barak Obama...
There is one and only one decision to be made by the American president here. That is COMPLETE WITHDRAWAL of every last American man and woman from the middle east. Now if our forces are there for reasons OTHER than shoveling the American way in those tribesman's faces, such as defending critical oil fields, or fighting the poppy drug lords, then they should just admit that and prescribe a course of military action and present a sure fire plan to win this war and WIN IT with all of the necessary force this country possesses. If not it's just going to be another Vietnam.
LarryVegas:
Somebody has to clean up after Bush.
President Obama will do his best.
Hey teamster...
It may not be good enough if President Obama does HIS best.
Since we are in a war situation, we need the best military minds to do their best. And it appears that the military is trying their best but the President would rather listen to "Move On" for his military decisions.
The Soviet Union committed 110,000 well equipped troops to the 1979-80s period war with the Afghans. As a coincidence, if President Obama approves the General McChrystal request of 40,000 additional troops, the total American troop size in Afghanistan will be close to 110,000. Soviet commanders showered praises on the fighting efforts of their troops,but to no avail as the Afghan guerrillas engaged in a deadly game of "whack-a-mole" with the Russian forces. The Russians lost 15,000 in the War. The Russians also killed about 800,000 Afghans, a fact that left the Russians hated by the local Afghan population. The fighting tactics of the Afghan guerrillas against the Russians were much the same as those being used by the Taliban against the NATO coalition forces. In addition to the comparisons just given, the terrain and locations of war were very much the same for both the Russian and American troops.
Based on these experiences, the United States would be well served by a careful analysis
of both comparisons and contrasts with the Russian and current American campaigns in Afghanistan. Again, the Russian experience certainly appears to be the most relevant
in determining how America should plan for and execute its war in Afghanistan. The NY Times OP-ED "Transcripts of Defeat" by Victor Sebestyen, published October 28,2009 is an article well worth reading to gain an insight into the Soviet Union's experience in Afghanistan.
I've seen and heard enough, I say we beat it outta there A.S.A.P. Who cares about that cruddy piece earth...
Houstonjac raises some very salient points in his post, especially about the need for a very in-depth analysis of the present Afghan situation to determine the best way forward in the extremely important days, weeks, months and years ahead. It occurs to me that most of the gung-ho "lets bomb all of the rag-heads back into the stone-age and why didn't we do it yesterday" guys that love to bash Obama for his so-called "dithering" don't have a clue what it takes to fight a war, especially in a country the size of Afghanistan. It has a land area of approximately 650,000 square miles, compared to the contiguous US area of approximately 3,150,000 square miles. That's about 1/6th of the US land area, or about everything in the US West of Colorado.
So lets say we were finally able to suppress the Taliban in Afghanistan. How would we be able to control such a vast area to prevent the resurgence of their forces, or the rise of another radical entity? At present we can't even control the Latin American MS-13 gangs that are spreading like wildfire through-out our country. The Crips and Bloods are running rampant in South-Central LA, the Mexican and Colombian drug cartels are expanding their operations into our cities large and small. Hell, despite the great work of the Border Patrol, we can't even really control the Mexican-San Diego border. Granted, we did manage to control Europe at the end of WWII, but we had the Brits, the Canadians and the Free French on our flanks, and the huge Russian Army in the East. And we had twelve million men and women under arms.
If you are going to fight a war in a country the size of Afghanistan, you better have a plan, and it had better be based on sober, thoughtful, and diligent research, precise intelligence, and the best advice of wise and knowlegable people who are willing to stake their reputations on their advice. If it takes Obama a few days longer that some people think is necessary, tough noogies as we used to say. They have nothing to lose if their opinions are proved wrong. he has a lot to lose, and it affects all of us.
Wite, my sentiments exactly.
The stategy of continually blaming Bush is the same stategy that Nero employed while Rome burned.
When is Obama going to stop campaigning and start governing. Even the mid-shift managers at McDonalds are trained to make decisions.
"How refreshing it is to have a president who carefully considers all sides of an issue as important as Afghanistan before making a decision. President Barack Obama is taking his time and trying to understand just what has a chance of actually working."
You sick people, there is nothing refreshing about what he is doing. America lives are being lost and since the war began, Under Obama is directly responsible for the most lives lost since the war began and the rest of you lunatic liberals who support such a spineless person.
Since you liberals like what he is doing and you're proud of what his accomplishments are there then here is an idea that you will love. We round up all you liberals and we ship you off to Afghanistan and Iraq and let Obama continue with his spineless choices. We could just sit back and let them do us a favor, lunatics being used for their thirst.
Hey, its2hot, getalife, larryvegas and all the others, let me ask you a question. And don't lie about it because that just demeans you, we wouldn't know it but you would. Have any of you ever spent one day in the military or one day outside the country (Tiajauna not included)? I doubt it, and I'm pretty sure none of you loudmouths have ever been to Pakistan or Afghanistan. Well, I have been to Pakistan, and Afghanistan is very much the same. Let me tell you about it.
The cities are all the same dull, brownish-gray color, as are the buildings, the streets, and to a great degree, the people, because of the constant fine mist of dust and sand that permeates everything. As you drive through Karachi or Islamabad, little children run alongside your vehicle, risking life and limb, hoping for a coin or a cigarette. The ditches alongside the roads are littered with dead donkeys, dogs, and in some cases, people. Little boys run behind the ubiqitious camel carts hoping to scoop up some of the camel dung, so they can take it home and dry it out to put to use as fuel for their cooking fires. Wood is almost nonexistent in that part of the world. Young girls wander the Bazaars holding infants in one arm, pinching the baby to make it cry in hopes someone will take pity on them and put a coin in her outstretched other hand.
As I said, I have been there, and these places are the armpit (I could use a much harsher word)of the world. You had better think long and hard about wanting to send more of our kids over there to support those people.
The sad thing is that now, these countries make up a political and military conundrum for the President. Does he keep our effort at the status quo or does he increase our commitment to support a corrupt and unstable government headed by an incompetent politician who's own brother is a narcotics dealer and pseudo warlord himself? It is indeed a tough decision to have to make, and whatever he does is going to be hammered by the squealing lab rats like the aforementioned loudmouths. If you have never been there, done that, you should just shut up about things of which you have no knowledge. You want what you want and you want it now, just like my three-year old great-granddaughter. You don't have the slightest concept of what it takes to fight a war, not to mention what it take to provide the bullets and beans needed to fight it. I worked as a technical writer and a Logistics specialist for the military for over twenty years after I retired from my thirty year military career, so I know what I am talking about, unlike most of the blowhards that post their hate for Obama. And as for the comments about Obama only listening to his Moveon.org handlers, and playing golf while American troops are dying, that shows just how deep the ignorance and hatred is on the radical right.
bigdon... I spent a year in Vietnam with the U.S. Army. You spent a career aboard a Navy ship. I would say that we are about equal...
Larry, if you did, I salute you, but one year in-country does not equate to thirty years on many ships and a lot of other things unless you spent some time under fire. Did you? Did you ever get out of Saigon? Or outside the gate in Danang? I spent a little time there too. Ever heard of the Riverine Force? Or HAL-3. Or the Coastal Patrol Squadrons? I could have been in any of them and you would not have known it. So to say that I spent thirty years on a ship and that equates to one year on the ground somewhere in Nam is a stretch, don't you think. It's not that I doubt you, but when you told me in an earlier post that you were a Border Patrol Officer, you didn't mention your Nam year. Tell you what, I got pictures, you got any? Be happy to trade with you. Let me know.
bigdon... I have no quarrel with your service. Some of my best friends were Navy. I may owe my life to the sailors on the Destroyer "Allman"(sp) that sat off Landing Zone "Betty" near Phan Thiet in 1967 and gave us (2/7 1st Cav)fire support with their 5 inchers. Afterwards, they sent a launch in to shore with cases filled with little cartons of fresh milk. We had not seen fresh milk for the 11 months we were in country and had to trade those Navy guys a can of beer for each little carton of milk we got. All of us went away smiling that day.
I also was a guest of the Navy for 23 days in November of 1966 aboard the troop ship "USNS General John Pope." Lovely accommodations... Sleeping in racks stacked five high. Waiting in line with about 3000 other GI's for our meals. Waiting in line to use the latrine. Waiting in line to use a shower. I think that's all you Navy guys do, wait in lines. For us Army guys it was always hurry up and wait.
And of course, I won't forget the fun filled trip in to the beach in landing craft that dropped their ramps in 3 to 4 feet of water 20 feet or so from the beach. And I don't know why the Navy did not have porters to help carry our gear to the shore. I will never take that cruise line again...
Good on you, Larry, again I salute your service. On the six carrier cruises I made during the eight-plus years of the war, at least I got to sleep in the Chief's Quarters in the six hours a day I was not on the flight deck helping my bomb loading crews hump 500 and 1,000 pound bombs, and got to eat in the CPO mess. Always the best food on the ship (any ship), and the officers who had to eat in the Wardroom were so jealous. As for the Allman, the tin cans did yeoman duty during the war and seldom got the recognition they deserved. As to the John Pope, at least it didn't sink underneath you. And as for sleeping in the crews compartments, it really lets you get to know your shipmates; snores, farts, B.O. and all.
As I said, I was ashore in Nam for a short period in '68, doing acceptance inspections on aircraft that we were getting to replace birds that had been shot down or lost to accidents. I was at Danang for 10 days, and that was enough to convince me that I had made the right choice of services. I have had enough bickering for today, time to watch Law and Order. Take care.
The Navy Chief noticed a new seaman and barked at him, "Get over here! What's your name sailor?"
"John," the new seaman replied.
"Look, I don't know what kind of bleeding-heart pansy crap they're teaching sailors in boot camp nowadays, but I don't call anyone by his first name," the chief scowled. "It breeds familiarity, and that leads to a breakdown in authority. I refer to my sailors by their last names only; Smith, Jones, Baker, whatever. And you are to refer to me as 'Chief'. Do I make myself clear?"
"Aye, Aye Chief!"
"Now that we've got that straight, what's your last name?"
The seaman sighed. "Darling, My name is John Darling, Chief."
"Okay, John, here's what I want you to do ......."
23bigdon, thanks for your service, I served in the first Gulf War, Army.
Just because you served doesn't make you right, intelligent, informed or anything else. I means you served your Country. Again, thank you.
The topic at hand deals with weather we have have President who is either ignorant or grandstanding. Just because you get security briefings doesn't mean you understand what they mean.
Example: A brewmaster can explain the intricacies of brewing a top notch IPA and I only understand that I really like them.
Obama has no clue what to do, his advisors are shills for the Lib establishment and he doesn't take criticism well. Boohoo.
Meanwhile, Our men need him to make a decision. Like I previously stated, a mid-level manager at McDonalds can make a more effective decision based on training.
As a disabled Viet-Nam veteran, I'm happy that President Obama is taking his time to define the misssion. The Soviets didn't have much luck there.
Personally, I say get our troops out and tell the Taliban that IF we ever return it will be to show them the door to hell.