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Issue is judgment, not wealth

Thu, Apr 26, 2012 (2:01 a.m.)

In response to a recent letter suggesting Mitt Romney was not able to relate to the less fortunate, I don’t recall that John or Teddy Kennedy or John Kerry were ever judged on how wealthy they were. They weren’t deemed incapable of relating to the public.

The major concern we share now is whether the candidate we elect can get us out of this deep hold of debt. The sitting president got us there, and he hasn’t the foggiest notion how to fix this economy and bring back jobs.

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Discussion: 94 comments so far…

  1. I agree!Also we are sitting on another crisis that will wipe out another round of our assets--the government debt bubble and the money in circulation bubble, which will make the last bust look like a cake walk! We must get these under control or go through another round of asset depreciation of major proportions.

  2. Don't forget FDR was well off financially as well.

  3. Mitt Romny shouldn't be judged solely for his wealth but has no real world experience with middle class issues. He is fond of telling folks that he is unemployed too. But when you have a quarter billion in the bank, it's not the same.

  4. Mitt Romnery is qualified to deal with this economy and the job of president. He is an executive, running for the leader of the Executive Branch. He's demonstrated that he's a successful executive at Bain, at the 2002 Olympics and as governor of Mass from 2003-2007. His joint law/MBA degrees from Harvard are useful. Think about the misfit that is now in the WH who was elected by the sheep. What a colossal inexperienced failure. It is time to make a change in the White House. The incumbent Obama has a tired and failed array of policies which continue to set America back. Incredible debt, high and stubborn unemployment, the promotion of racial and class division, encumbered regulations which burden our businesses, a healthcare program which is unpopular and ill founded, a weak foreign relations policy which frequently casts the nation in the role of apologizing for who it is, and an anemic energy policy which fails to take advantage of the nation's massive hydrocarbon resources as the nation is punished by high gas prices. The incumbent president lacks a cohesive vision for the nation and his policies continue to push it further away from its traditional core values of individual accountability, free enterprise, and private solutions to national needs instead of massive central government involvement in the life of the nation.

  5. FACTS...

    Former President Bush and Congress spent money on the wars in Iraq, and Afghanistan, a Medicare Prescription Drug Plan, DHS, Income Tax Cuts and many other things and did not balance spending for them with cuts in other government spending or higher taxes elsewhere. That created a large debt.

    When the recession arrived, both former President Bush and then President Obama spent more money trying to lessen the effects of recession and still did not cut spending and did not raise taxes to balance spending. This caused the debt to get even larger.

    Somebody, as President, and the Congress is going to have to re-write the income tax code, raise taxes on 'all' Americans, change Medicare and SS security for future recipients, exit Iraq and Afghanistan and stay out of other conflicts unless we are attacked, and cut government spending.

    All this and more should have been done in the last 4 years of the Bush administration but wasn't. Then it should have been done in the first 3 1/2 years of the Obama administration, but it hasn't been done... and neither side shows any sign of doing it in the future either.

    Those are the FACTS and this country is in big trouble. Vote as you will and cross your fingers because right now, we have a ton of political leaders who see the iceberg ahead but keep going full speed ahead right toward it.

    I know I'll hear the same tired rheteroic from both sides but none of it is relevant unless we demand that whoever is elected President and members of Congress start taking the tough and painful steps required to reach fiscal solvency.


  6. You gotta wonder just what flag the guy from Crook County, IL, drapes himself in? Certainly not the one with the Stars & Stripes on it. As for Romney making money by being succesful; we now have a cretin in the Oval Office who knew nothing about business or economics and where has that gotten us? I guess the "politics of envy" demands that one should strive to be a failure and unsuccessful in life. In the case of the guy from Crook County, that worked out pretty well, didn't it?

  7. Well Jerry Fink, My wife and I own our home outright , are successfully invested, have gone green on our home so the utilities average around ~$25 per month, drive a car we only have to fill up ~ every thirteen days, take trips, and aren't envious of selfish and short sighted people who regularly make factually wrong claims. So who is the real cretin? President Obama is a far better educated and intelligent man than you have ever been so keep posting to the Sun and trying to convince readers your pathetic arguments have merit and you are "...succesful...". (Sic)

  8. Screw the deficit and lets have some jobs which are not likely under a republican't.

  9. RefNV,
    Yes. Liberals want to take the country in a direction that helps people to become better educated so they don't fall for the kind of propaganda RefNV either believes or is manipulating others into believing.

  10. RefNV,

    Please put that bumper sticker on your beater so people will know to stay out of your way to avoid the inevitable collision. Oh and get off the cell phone.

    Meanwhile, back in reality regarding the success of the stimulus plan:
    "...Now maybe it was just pure coincidence that the turnaround began at almost the exact same moment that the stimulus started. It could be possible that that the economy began to grow again, job losses began to slow and layoffs started coming back down to earth all at nearly the same time -- right after the president signed the Recovery Act -- and it had nothing at all to do with the stimulus.

    More likely, of course, is that the myriad independent economists -- from the Congressional Budget Office to Moody's.com to Macro Economic Advisors -- are right.

    The stimulus worked."
    So, who to believe? The experts or RefNV...?

  11. Anyone can reach back in history and draw differences/similes. Don't much help with the here and now though.

    The simple fact of the matter is that Mr. Romney is of the rich, for the rich and will always be for the rich. And no one else.

    If you don't believe me, look back at the primaries. Every single State he ran, he won HANDS DOWN the electorate of Tea/Republicans who were in the category of making $100,000.00 and up. Every single State.

    The rich have their candidate. And if you don't fall in love with this guy, you damn sure better fall in line. Because this whole Presidential race in 2012 is shaping up to be along the same lines as the Angle/Reid Senate race of 2010. Hatred of a candidate is not going to get your guy in office. No matter how much you want it to be like that, it don't work like that. Mr. Romney appears to be falling into that trap though. Because he figures he can just say anything and ride the hate, hoping that will carry him into office. Chhhrrrtt-chooka-chooka-chooooka-chhrrt (That's the sound of him turning the etch-a-sketch over, shaking vigorously, turning back over...voila! erased and start over)

    Most Tea/Republicans want everyone to forget common sense. Mr. Romney wants to be President and will first and foremost crush the middle class of this great country to dust. And the leftovers of all that's left will be given to the filthy rich.

    Make no mistake. I absolutely detest the entire composition of this bastardized conservatism that the Tea/Republican Party cloaks themselves in nowadays. And I intend to seek their utter destruction on November 6, 2012.

    President Obama for another four years. And a Democratic Party majority in the Senate and the House too. To Heck with Heller and to Heller with Heck.

    This is the ONLY way the Tea/Republicans will ever come back down to sanity and stop their neverending search to get further and further and further and furthest and furthest to the right of each other. They are at non-stop war not with the Democrats, but themselves.

    I say to put an end to it by voting all of them numbskulls out of office.

    If you don't believe me, just look at the Nevada Tea/Republicans. They are so rabid in their hatred that they hire an almost ex-con to run the Nevada Republican Party. I anticipate he'll carry on in the great traditions of Sharron Angle and invoke 2nd Amendment remedies if they don't get their way.

    Enough. We take them all out at the voting booths. We are their only hope to fix their stupid political party and bring them back to reality.

    They can either grasp the truth of things or just continue on and howl in rage and frustration on Fox PORNO (Political Organization-Republican News Only) News for the next four years.

    They can make the choice.

  12. To carry on with that bumper sticker thing, mine reads:

    "I may be a Democrat, but I drive like a Republican."

  13. Ada R. Lloyed - "The sitting president got us there, and he hasn't the foggiest notion how to fix this economy and bring back jobs."

    Another clueless Fox viewer who ignores reality. When Obama was sworn in the DOW was at 7900, it is now over 13,000. Obama has created more jobs than Bush, why do people keep ignoring these facts?

  14. Future - "Obama calls me stupid, redneck, gue toting, religious and racist. Obama does not relate to me."

    The last person I know of who heard things that weren't said or voices had an unusual name, the Son of Sam.

  15. RefNV,
    Would that population include the elderly and those too young to work as well as the disabled? Please reference the original report and any weaknesses.

  16. Houstonjac - "He's demonstrated that he's a successful executive at Bain, at the 2002 Olympics and as governor of Mass from 2003-2007."

    You've already forgotten socialized Romneycare and Massachusetts ranked 47th in job creation during his term.

    Romney used government funds to support the Olympics.

    Rick Perry - "There's a real difference between venture capitalism and vulture capitalism," "I don't believe that capitalism is making a buck under any circumstances. Look what happened between Washington D.C. and Wall Street over the last few years: $7.7 trillion were transferred from our Federal accounts into Wall Street."

  17. I agree with the letter, The ones bashing the "rich' Romney seem to think money is evil yet they all want part of his cash. John F. Kennedy never "worked" a day in his life because he did not have to his family was super wealthy yet he did serve proudly in the Armed Forces and was a Catholic President, very rare. John Kerry had all kinds of money yet the same who criticize Romney never bring that up. Jimmy Carter was one of worst presidents on record yet went on to be a great humanitarian, something he was really good at. President Obama is a terrible leader yet I am sure will follow President Carters' path next year and become a great at some humanitarian cause and will be remembered for that good he does in the future. He is a trained community organizer so he has a very bright future in that type of social work.

  18. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment-...
    Employment to population ratio. Switzerland, Iceland and Denmark lead the world. Real bastions of super capitalism.

    All the people mentioned by the letter writer were born with silver spoons in their mouths. None could ever relate to someone suffering with cancer and not being able to pay the bill. Or some kid trying to come up with $50,000 a year to go to a good school.

  19. Romney attempting to connect with common people:

    "Corporations are people, my friend" of course they are. Everything corporations earn ultimately goes to the people. Where do you think it goes? Whose pockets? Whose pockets? People's pockets. Human beings, my friend."

    "I should tell my story. I'm also unemployed."

    "There were a couple of times I wondered whether I was going to get a pink slip"

    "I get speaker's fees from time to time, but not very much." ($374,000)

    "I'm running for office for Pete's sake, we can't have illegals."

    "I'm not concerned about the very poor. We have a safety net there."

    Teddy Roosevelt August 1910 - "No man should receive a dollar unless that dollar has been fairly earned. Every dollar received should represent a dollar's worth of service rendered not gambling in stocks, but service rendered."

    "If our political institutions were perfect, they would absolutely prevent the political domination of money in any part of our affairs. We need to make our political representatives more quickly and sensitively responsive to the people whose servants they are. More direct action by the people in their own affairs under proper safeguards is vitally necessary. The direct primary is a step in this direction, if it is associated with a corrupt-practices act effective to prevent the advantage of the man willing recklessly and unscrupulously to spend money over his more honest competitor."

  20. The TEA nuts that post here are SO COMICAL!!!

    Trying to prop up Willard is tricky business...
    NO ONE BUT YOU likes the guy.
    NO ONE.
    He's toast, and the election cycle has BARELY BEGUN.
    Bashing Barack Obama and blaming his admin for Bush's buffoonery is A TYPICAL TEAPUBLICAN TACTIC...
    Since the Repub's DROVE THIS BUS OFF THE CLIFF, they must use diversionary tactics to deflect their own culpability in this whole mess...
    The American electorate is SICK AND TIRED of Tea Party rhetoric that is NOT FACTUAL and has NO BASIS IN REALITY.

    "I, ME, MINE!"
    Romney/??? 2012

    "Rich, & Lovin' it!"
    Thurston & Lovey Howell/Romney

  21. I don't think Teddy had any trouble at all relating to the "common person", at least in Las Vegas. After all, we probably have the highest number of drunk drivers per capita of all major cities in America.

  22. Re Jim Reid. "Romney has been married to the same wonderful woman for nearly 50 years". Check your math. I'm not going to bother looking up Romney's birth date, but if he married at 20 years old, that would make him 70. Keep throwing sh*t against the wall and sooner or later, some of it may stick.

  23. Lmao, reading the liberal responses to the article.

    People for the most part vote on the lesser of evils, Romney is the lesser of the two. If Romney does not win then Obama succeeded with the direction he's doing, continued success brainwashing his trolls into loving their preferred lifestyle sucking off of welfare and other government subsidies where they're told what do and when to do it.

  24. "The major concern we share now is whether the candidate we elect can get us out of this deep hold of debt. The sitting president got us there..."

    Of all the absurd statements I've read by writers and commenters, this one simply takes the cake.

    First, we don't share the "major concern" of "whether the candidate we elect can get us out of this deep hold of debt". Why don't we share it? Because since the very beginning of our nation's existence, we've been in debt, and no president is going to get us out of it.

    Second, there were 43 presidents before the sitting president, and not one of the 44 presidents "got us there". Presidents don't spend our money. Congress does.

    Even if one were to ignore this "technicality", to say the sitting president "got us there" ("there" being the $15.6 trillion debt we have today) is to ignore the nearly $10 trillion in debt that existed on 1/20/09. It is the use of this type of language by politicians, pundits, and the sheep that can't think for themselves, that is the real problem in our country.

  25. http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SL.E...
    Ref...If you don't like Switzerland and Iceland check China. They have a few people and a much higher ratio than we have....darn commies!!!

  26. TEA - "BTW...U.S. now has the highest corporate tax in the world"


    Study: Many Fortune 500 cos. paid $0 taxes

    Advocates for reducing U.S. corporate tax rates argue that lower corporate rates charged in other countries impede American competitiveness. Yet a new study finds that many of the nation's top companies are already paying less in U.S. taxes on their pretax profits than they do overseas.

    In a study comprising more than half of the Fortune 500 list of the largest U.S. corporations, a quarter of those examined paid little or nothing in federal income taxes during the 2008-2010 period, despite registering profits in all three years.

  27. Press - "Brancos wrote on this page once that A. Lincoln was really a Democrat."

    If you are going to lie about something I put in print, the least you could do is find it.

    abostonboy - "Presidents don't spend our money. Congress does."

    Thank you for pointing out how congress works, something that many seem not to know or overlook.

  28. No teamster, if Lincoln were here today he would be a Whig just like he started as and always thought of himself as. (That is well documented.)

  29. Interesting that Romney is out of touch because he is rich, but Buffet appears in tune with the struggles of the middle class.

  30. I really enjoy what a teamster has to say, it's no wonder Hindus have excelled in truck driving 101 and are taking over their driver jobs as owner operators. By reading posts, the teamsters obviously have self inflicted pain upon themselves...

  31. I would have said over 40 years instead of nearly 50, but that is a valid point. Say what you want about Mitt, it seems he can truly run on family values.

  32. Ref...the labor to population ratio is meaningless. It varies from nation to nation and says nothing. The deficit will either be paid down or written down. Asia, Latin America and Russia have all had massive write downs over the last 20 years. The deficit is as meaningless as the labor to population ratio.

  33. I applaud the stability and success of Mitt Romney's family. But, no, he can't truly run on family values. He's not even trying to. What he can run on, and is running on, is HIS family values.

    There are, always have been, and always will be, families in this country whose values differ from his. There should be. But I don't want our president to denigrate those families and their values. I don't want our president to proactively attempt to de-legitimize those families. I don't want our president to proactively prevent legitimization of those families.

    So, sorry, but I disagree. He can't "truly" run on family values.

  34. the jobless rate rises and falls as part of an economic cycle. Over the last hundred years we have had a low of about 1% in 1944 to 20% plus during the Great Depression. The natural or frictional unemployment rate has been about 5% over that period of time. People have very little money. Demand for consumer goods is lax and there is no reason for businesses to hire millions of people.

    Wanting 5% unemployment again and getting it are two different things.

    If you think Romney will be our Savior name one business that has agreed to hire one worker if Romney gets elected. I asked you this yesterday without response.

    I think we have entered an era of above trend unemployment. That's just the way it is. In many countries 7% to 8% unemployment is a natural rate.

    How I feel about the unemployed is irrelevant. I don't have the ability to hire millions of people.

    In terms of the deficits negatively impacting private investment. Corporations are sitting on trillions of dollars in cash. Apple alone has more money than the entire federal government. There is plenty of money available for private investment if the demand for goods and services picks up.

  35. prior to the recession the net worth of this country was just shy of $71 trillion. Today it is sitting at about $57 trillion. Those losses are due primarily to the collapse of the real estate market. People used to use equity and real estate to fund consumer purchases like cars, furniture and vacation homes. That source of money largely dried up and it has affected our GDP which is consumption driven.

    The period From 1968 until 1982 was somewhat similar to what we are going through now excluding the entitlement bubble caused by the aging population. Sometimes it takes many years to get back to the historical norm.

    After the financial blow up in 1929 it took until 1954 for financial markets to completely recover.

  36. Maybe I'll be like RefNV and continuously post irrelevant statistics:

    The average wingspan of a monarch butterfly is 93-105 mm.

    The parquet floor in Boston Garden has 247 panels.

    The deepests artificial point on earth is 40,230 feet.

  37. Sorry Ref....what companies have announced they would hire millions in a Romney economy?
    When did I call the unemployed irrelevant? I have said increased aggregate demand and a recovery in construction are necessary for normal unemployment. The president has little if any control over either.

  38. @RefNV,

    One: repeating the lie about the stimulus not working doesn't make it so.

    Two: I can see the faulty data you are passing off. You haven't accounted for the increase of the population from 288,369 in 2002 to 314,281 as of 2012.

    Three: most economists agree it usually takes almost 5 years to bring the economy out of a deep recession.


  39. "this deep hold of debt...the sitting president got us there".

    Ada - you said this. What planet do you sleep on at night? Are you really here or did this letter get beamed into the Sun via radio frequency?

    "The sitting President created this debt" Oh yeah??
    You must have read and taken to heart 2nd Corinthians, 5:7 which says: "For we live by believing and not by seeing" and in another version, "For we live by faith, not by sight."

    2nd Corinthians teaches it's followers to reject reality and create their very own world inside their mind, or what is left of it. No wonder you vote Republican.

  40. http://www.truthfulpolitics.com/http:/tr...
    The average unemployment rate under Democratic administrations and Republican administrations has been almost exactly the same since World War II. The Guy sitting in the White House means nothing.

    Your ratios mean nothing. As stated above the countries with the highest ratios are Iceland, Denmark, Switzerland and China.

    In terms of General Motors. They sold 9 million cars last year putting them back in the top position. In addition they were the world leader for eight decades and have sold hundreds of millions of cars and trucks around the world since World War II. Hell, GM helped us to win World War II with their massive production of war material.

    In terms of the deficit being 10% of GDP not being sustainable. Who says?

    We have close to $700 trillion worth of GDP coming down the pike in the next 40 years. Our deficit is about two points of that. If people want to pay off the deficit they can take a couple points of GDP to do it. If they don't nothing says they have to.

    There have been debt bubbles, financial bubbles and every other type of economic catastrophe for hundreds of years. None of this stuff is new.

    What would be new is if we did pay off the deficit. It's been around on and off since the Revolutionary war.

  41. The employment to population ratio is such an obscure economic statistic it's hard to find data going back more than a few years. I don't even know how you found it.

    If you can find this ratio going back more than 10 years I would love to see it. I can't find anything prior to 2002. With many economic statistics I can find data going back 100 years or more.

  42. Years ago union membership comprised a substantial portion of the labor force and welfare was nil. Today union membership is almost nil and half the families in the country are getting some kind of government assistance. Social welfare has replaced high-paying jobs and pensions.

    If you don't believe this check Medicaid and Medicare expenditures. Those two programs alone will pay out close to $1 trillion this year. Not an insignificant amount of money.

  43. http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/ser...
    Check this baby out. Your ratio has been dropping for 13 years. You gotta love that ratio.

  44. If we don't get rid of BHO and company we'll all be broke or at least in the same position we're in now four years from now.
    I'm not happy we have to pay for his retirement, and that of all the other clowns that will be leaving with him. We should be able to vote on that also....

  45. Ref - I'm not sure what the technical term is for what you keep doing, but it sure sounds like "I know I am but what are you?"

    Both Gerry and I have said multiple times now that the statistic you quote over and over ad nauseum is irrelevant. I even provided an extremly simple example of how it's irrelevant. And your response each time is that Gerry and I don't care about unemployed people. What bologna.

    Wanna' know who doesn't care about unemployed people? Mitt Romney! Crystal clear in his words about not being concerned about very poor people. And who are those 12-14 million people? Very poor people. "Oh wait," you say, "most of them are not poor". To which I say, if Mitt Romney is elected, "not yet!"

    Your beloved, oft-quoted by you, statistic is irrelevant. The people who are unemployed are not. The statistic does NOT tell me how many people are unemployed. That's like saying the national debt as a percentage of the GDP tells me what the national debt is. It does not. The statistic that tells me the number of unemployed is the unemployment rate.

    In the six months after the stimulus was signed, the unemployment rate was still increasing as the brakes were applied to the freefalling economy left by the Bush-Cheney adminstration. And since then, there has been a constant and steady (albeit slow) decrease in the unemployment rate. Is that why you constantly state that the stimulus failed?

    The unemployment rate. Focus.

    Here's another irrelevant statistic for you: The average height of men in Nepal is 5'4".

  46. You have to laugh...

    The Howell-Romneys have been on the campaign trail for FIVE LONG YEARS, and in ALL THAT TIME, have failed to come up with a cogent, definitive platform to run on.

    "Don't hate us because we're RICH!"
    "I'm a 'successful BUSINESSMAN'!"
    (Memo to Mitt; Having made a ton of dough in the manner you did does not make you a 'businessman' OR 'Presidential Material'; Drug Dealers & Pimps are rich, too.)

    'ONLY ME & THE OTHER 1 PERCENTERS can run this country!'
    'Keeping Richie Rich happy & prosperous is the ONLY WAY TO MOVE THIS COUNTRY FORWARD!'

    "Corporations are people too, my friend!"

    'Barack Obama is DANGEROUS! He is RUINING AMERICA!'

    My GOD, but it's a PARODY!
    It's a running Saturday Night Live SKIT.
    Romney is Sharron Angle on STEROIDS, and any AD AGENCY would be ECSTATIC to have the opportunity to 'create' poli-ads for President Obama's re-election campaign; and plenty will have the opportunity, as The Prez has a BOATLOAD of DO-RE-ME...

    The contrast between Barack Obama & Thurston Howell-Romney COULD NOT BE MORE STARK...
    The winner of the Republican Primary 'Clown Contest' is a TRUE CHAMPION of the 1 percenters...and PROUD OF IT.
    President Barack Obama is a Champion of The Peeps';
    and the WORST NIGHTMARE of the TeaNuts.
    A 'mixed race', intelligent, well-spoken, educated supporter of the EXACT THINGS the Gun Totin', Money Grubbin', Bible Thumpin' RIGHTIES DESPISE...
    (no need to expound upon those things here...)

    The Republican Party has GROSSLY MISCALCULATED.
    Pandering to their little niche doesn't add up to a whole bunch o' votes; but it WILL be entertaining!!!

  47. Ref says "democrats care less about the economy and the jobless and more about having a President who's cool. So be it." If I were capable of being offended by him, I would be. Ref, you're wrong.

    As far as the mandatory qualities I look for in a President, I think both Pres. Obama and Gov. Romney have them. And being cool is not one of them. But, if all else were equal, I think even republicans would side with the cool one. Of course, not all else is equal.

    Here's what I believe: Both men are "presentable" on the world stage. They're both intelligent and educated (two things that don't always go hand in hand). At their inner core, both truly are good people. Both have wonderful families, which says a lot about them. Both have instincts that serve them well. Both are extremely respectable. Both have a sense of humility. There are other vital qualities that both men share as well.

    I also think that both men want what's best. But it's their politics, the path toward "what's best", that separates them. It's how they guide us to "what's best" that decides who I vote for. It is this core political principle that distinguishes one side of the political spectrum from the other.


  48. (cont.)

    Romney is a person who believes that government should stay out of the way of everyone to the greatest extent possible. But, he knows that, by its nature, government always "gets in the way" to some extent. He also knows that getting in the way is not always bad. It can be done in a good way. But still, the least getting in the way possible. Thus, his philosophy is one where government gets in the way, in a good way, to as few as possible. Then, the few who benefited directly from the government will share those benefits with everyone else, such that everyone benefits, directly or indirectly. The path toward "what's best" is the one where government directly benefits as few as possible.

    Obama is a person who, like Romney, believes that government should "get in the way" as little as possible. And he, too, knows that getting the way can be good. But his philosophy is one where government gets in the way, in a good way, to benefit as many as possible. In Obama's eyes, what the government does for the few, it should do for the masses. The path toward "what's best" is the one where government directly benefits as many as possible.

    I didn't vote for Obama four years ago because he was cool. And I'm not going to vote for him this November because he slow-jammed the news with Jimmy Fallon. I have two choices. The first is a path where the government directly benefits as few as possible. The second is a path where the government directly benefits as many as possible. I don't think the first path works. I think the first path gets to what's best for the few, but not for all. I think taking the first path requires faith in the few to share the wealth. I think the few have proven that it is a misguided faith. I choose the second path. That is why I will vote for Pres. Obama.

  49. RefNV, here's my bumper sticker:

    bin Laden DEAD / GM ALIVE Obama 2012