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Letter to the editor:

Tax breaks making economy trickle up

Tue, Jul 17, 2012 (2:01 a.m.)

A must-read is the November 2011 report by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., “Subsidies of the Rich and Famous.” Reading the report will leave you shaking your head. Our tax codes have been written on behalf of the wealthy. All tax breaks are not available to everyone; some are only for the wealthy.

Among the highlights:

• The farm bill. Millionaires who claimed to be farmers (78 percent listed a metropolitan address) were paid more than $283 million by the Agriculture Department.

• Subsidizing millionaires’ mansions, yachts and vacation homes. We all can deduct mortgage interest, but we all don’t have several multimillion dollar homes and yachts. A yacht qualifies as a home as long as it has sleeping, cooking and toilet facilities, plus it must be occupied at least two weeks a year.

• Disaster relief for uninsured millionaires. Can’t they afford insurance on their properties?

• Forgiving debt for millionaires. This includes debt cancellation in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

• Helping millionaires maintain investment properties. A lot of the expenses of being a landlord can be deducted from the rental income.

• Tax deductions for millionaires to entertain clients. The IRS definition of what is considered entertainment is broad.

The author of the report says “the tragic irony is the wealth in these cases is trickling up rather than down the economic ladder.”

How many of us have these write-offs? Who are the entitled?

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Discussion: 70 comments so far…

  1. These tax benefits are avaiable to everyone,not just millionaires. Thank God the tax code does not
    exclude those who are millionaies from these tax deductions. It's no crime to be a millionaire . Business expense and mortgage interest deductions are common. This letter is written in the true spirit of class warfare and envy.What is a millionaire to the letter writer--someone with a million in assets? a million in net worth? a million in the bank? a million in gross income? Define "millionare".

  2. I wish people on both sides really understood how our system works today.

    Dave Starr correctly points out that wealthy and powerful individuals, businesses and groups have been provided advantages by Congress that most of us cannot utilize because we are not wealthy.

    But because he fails to recognize how our system really works, he rails against what he sees as injustice and then supports the D party.

    I hate to break it to Mr. Starr, but the 'lobbying' system in place in Congress is why Congress provides these advantages to wealthy and powerful individuals, businesses and groups.

    These lobbyists successfully target R's and D's in Congress. President Obama's solution is to use taxes to 'even' the playing field while demonizing the wealthy. Does Mr. Starr somehow think that the successful lobbying will magically stop? It won't.

    President Obama's solution isn't a solution; it is a bandaide. The solution is to reduce the influence of lobbyists in Congress. We could move in this direction with:

    public financing of campaigns

    term limits

    lifetime bans on lobbying by former members of Congress

    Absolute disclosure of every donation made

    taking away some of the perks of members of Congress, such as their own health care plan, retirement and pensions the rest of us cannot get

    There are many more things Congress could do to restrain the influence of lobbyists. Why is it that Mr. Starr thinks that none of this is ever addressed by Congress? It is because the system in place enriches our two parties, every member of Congress in both parties, the lobbyists and their employers.

    If Mr. Starr doesn't like the way things are, he should do what I recommend both R and D supporters do. Start demanding that Congress act on items that actually 'might' lessen the influence of lobbyists. Until that influence is lessened, wealthy and powerful individuals, businesses and groups will be advantaged by Congress... at the enpense of everyone else.

    Whether the President's last name is Obama or Romney of somebody else, Congress still makes all the laws and sets taxes and Congress is corrupted by lobbying... and that is where both the problem and the solution lies.

    Michael

  3. It use to be a good thing to acquire wealth and be successful. Now it's a sin, corruptible, and evil. Or, is it merely sour grapes by those who don't for those who do. Or, a ploy used by some politicians to pander to their base for votes. Perhaps, both.

    CarmineD

  4. Let's really get serious on the taxes in this country. Look at the Obamacare taxes that will murder the middle class and the elderly. The increase in medical deductions exclusions from 7.5 percent to 10 per cent of adjusted gross income thanks to Obamacare. The 500 billion reduction in Medicare benefits, including the gutting of Medicare Advantage.The tax on medical devices that are used to heal the sick. The sales tax on the taxable income from home sales that will be used to fund Obamacare. Let's do something about these taxes that will rip off the middle class and the elderly first, and not worry about the taxes of the millionaires. Let's also reform the tax code so that nearly fifty per cent of the wage earners pay no income taxes. That's a gross inequity that must be fixed. It's wrong to load the tax burden on so few . Everyone benefits from the greatness in America. So everyone should pay something.

  5. OMG!!!

    Just listen to the TeaNuts 'DEFEND' the 1 percenters and their MASSIVE WEALTH and TAX WRITE-OFFS!

    "OH, yer just jealous"...
    "it's really THE POOR PEOPLE and STRUGGLING lower-middle-class LOSERS who won't pay up!"

    Are you people for REAL???
    C'mon, MAN!!!

  6. What someone referred to as "President Obama's solution" is not a solution but just makes the problem worse. Putting more money into the hands of a corrupt system and having politicians decide where it should go does not help. Neither will term limits unless perhaps we were to limit people to one term and that probably causes more trouble than it fixes. As long as people continue to elect the same sorts of people, terms limits are of almost no use. California has them and they clearly have not done much to help them govern better. Public financing of campaigns does what? It puts control of all of the money for campaigns into the same hands that we are saying abuse the system today. It would also probably further shut down any chance of third party candidates in many races if those in control can set the rules.

    The real solution is people getting involved and managing their government rather than letting their government manage them. But too many people are looking for the politicians who are busy taking care of themselves to suddenly make choices for the rest of us. We have term limits and they are called elections. Setting term limits on Congress would just encourage people to turn away from them thinking the problem was solved. Short of people taking ownership of their government, not much else will matter.

  7. CarmineD - "It use to be a good thing to acquire wealth and be successful. Now it's a sin, corruptible, and evil. Or, is it merely sour grapes by those who don't for those who do."

    It's how their wealth is made. Having a politician in your pocket to skew the system in your favor is highly unethical if not down right illegal. Just recently congressional members had insider knowledge of Wall St. and bought/sold stocks to benefit themselves. If we as citizens had done that we'd be in prison.

    If this new investigation of Sheldon Adelson turns out to be true, one, I wouldn't be surprised, two, would he have to pay the piper. Every time I mentioned Wall St. corruption those on the fringe right would rant and rave. Your small minds can't possible conceive of banks being unethical such as Goldman Sachs and Barclay's LIBOR corruption. It's that form of ignorance that allowed those at the top to play the system, fail, and have you all to bail them out, while they made billions at your expense. Only a fool would protect the system and those that screwed them.

    Future - "Except for Obama everybody wants tax reform. Why does Obama refuse to reform taxes."

    Man ... you really need to turn off Fox, it's rotting your brain.

    Thanks Dave for bringing up Sen. Coburn's subsidies list. I posted something similar months ago, but it was ignored by the ditto and hinge heads. Too bad there isn't enough space for the entire report.

  8. Houstonjac - "Let's really get serious on the taxes in this country. Look at the Obamacare taxes that will murder the middle class and the elderly."

    What is your source of information, Fox? Taxes are the lowest they've been in thirty years and the firnge right believe Obama raised taxes. Bloomberg reported that the mandate penalty would affect less than 3% of the population.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-16...

    "The U.S. health-care overhaul's penalty for not carrying health insurance, which the Supreme Court ruled is a tax, will fall on fewer than 3 percent of taxpayers, mostly in middle- and lower-income categories."

    "The BGOV Barometer shows that about 3.9 million people will pay a penalty in 2016 for not carrying health insurance under the Affordable Care Act's so-called individual mandate, according to projections by the Congressional Budget Office. The total, equal to about 2.8 percent of the individual income tax returns Americans filed in 2010, includes 3 million families earning less than $120,000 a year."

  9. Mr. Branco et al:

    If the money is made legally and morally and taxes paid on it conform to IRS laws, then more power to the rich and successful. Wealth without conscience is the sin and contemptible. Too many, like the current president and many of his supporters, focus their contempt on all the wealthy Republicans across the board. There are more richer Democrats. And, last time I checked, President Obama is the president of all the people. Not just those he likes.

    CarmineD

  10. Here is a further excerpt from the Bloomberg article quoted by Mr. Branco. FYI

    "The court decision may increase the number of people who pay the penalty because it changed the perception of the law, Holtz-Eakin said. Before the ruling, the Congressional Budget Office said it assumed many people would buy insurance rather than pay the penalty because "people basically want to be law- abiding," Holtz-Eakin said.

    The Supreme Court, in its June 28 decision, said that refusing to buy insurance doesn't break the law.

    "It's now just a calculation between the tax or buying insurance, and more people are going to pay the tax because it's cheaper," Holtz-Eakin said. The penalty starts at a minimum of $95 in 2014, rising to $695 in 2016 and increasing at the rate of inflation thereafter."

    CarmineD

  11. As a frame of reference on the 3.9 Million, consider this.

    President Obama likes to point to 3.1 million children [children: 18-26 year olds] who the new law allowed coverage on their parents' policy. The benefit is vastly overstated. Why? Most standard health-insurance policies allow dependent children to remain on their parents' policy until age 25 or so, as long as they are considered dependents-like students going to college for instance. By contrast Obamacare includes most non-dependent children, who can remain uninsured until they need care, such as pregnancy, and then return to their parents' coverage.

    Obamacare's insurance mandate hurts rather than helps in this instance. Why? Children's coverage is the least expensive and most affordable. 2-18 years old are the healthiest segment of the population. Now that adult children well into their chid bearing ages are included and can move into and out of coverage when needed [by paying the tax penalty] the premiums for children will have to go up, making coverage more expensive for young families which often hev the lower-middle incomes.

    CarmineD

  12. CarmineD - "Too many, like the current president and many of his supporters, focus their contempt on all the wealthy Republicans across the board. There are more richer Democrats."

    Yes, it's true there are wealthy Democratic congressional members who've made there wealth just as did Republicans. The problem is that it's the GOP/Tea Party blocking and stalling any progress made towards fixing the system. It was Republicans who were in favor of exposing who was donating to PACs and SuperPACs who now block legislation, thus, once again impeding the process.

    That's been the game all along, "I was for it before I was against it." All in attempt to hinder President Obama, at our expense. Country first my arse, and the fools on the fringe right buy into their BS. Which explains how insane people now represent some of that fringe. Elected officials declaring that Congress has been infiltrated by communists and the Muslim brotherhood. Only idiots and insane people could believe such nonsense.

  13. Article seems a bit slanted. Everybody can claim most of those things regardless of income. Sure landlords of investment property are probably not completely destitute but who's gonna be a landlord if they can't deduct the property expenses.... The tax code must be written with the same for everybody, steering towards a flat tax. Any and all deductions have more of an impact on those who pay higher income taxes so duhhhh.

  14. Vernos.... and I quote:

    Having a politician in your pocket to skew the system in your favor is highly unethical if not down right illegal. Just recently congressional members had insider knowledge of Wall St. and bought/sold stocks to benefit themselves. If we as citizens had done that we'd be in prison.

    Vernos, who is the real problem here? Is it the 'rich' people who use a system set up by Congress, to get what they want through lobbying? Or is it Congress itself, which perpetuates this system and allows themselves to be 'bought'?

    Vernos, where is the real problem here: Is it the people who provided the insider information to Congress or is it the members of Congress that use the information to benefit themselves, even though they know it is illegal.

    You belong to a small group of people who really understand how the system works, but in your comments, you target the 'rich' and that 'fat cats' as the villans. Vernos, they are doing what we'd do in their place. They are using the system that is in place to keep as much of what they have as possible and gain as much advanatge as they can. We may not like it but it is human nature. They are the wrong targets. In order to attack them, we have to use proxys (our elected representatives) and they are corrupted by the people you want them to attack.

    The correct villans here are in Congress. THEY set up this system, THEY participate in it, THEY allow themselves to be corrupted by it, and THEY never do anything about their own corrupted system..... WHY? human nature again. We don't need proxy's to attack these people. We can do it directly, with the vote.

    Michael

  15. VernosB:
    A friend of mine came for coffee this morning. He has been a faithful contributor of a set amount ($1000) to the democrats every two years.
    His daughter found his name, address, to whom and what amount he contributed posted on the internet..He will never donate again.
    Contributors to Prop 8 in California were attacked after their personal information was posted on the web...

  16. "GOP/Tea Party blocking and stalling any progress made towards fixing the system."

    Mr. Branco:

    Please detail what progress that President Obama and the House/Senate while democrat controlled was blocked by the GOP. I'm curious, and probably others, to know.

    CarmineD

  17. wtplv - "Vernos, who is the real problem here? Is it the 'rich' people who use a system set up by Congress, to get what they want through lobbying? Or is it Congress itself, which perpetuates this system and allows themselves to be 'bought'?"

    Michael,

    It's a multi faceted problem. We have politicians who beg for campaign contribution and are willing to hose and sell out their constituents in favor of donations. "Casino Jack" Abramoff is a classic example of how to put the "fix" in. We have wealthy people who will contribute to a broken system knowing that legislative votes will favor their corporations and businesses. We have simple minded voters who watch "reality" television instead of following the careers of people they vote for. That's how insane whacko's such as Bachmann and West get into Congress and accuse other Americans of being traitors and unamerican. Lastly we have conglomerate media that no longer investigate news and use television as entertainment. In one case the media is a full blown propaganda machine and they manufacture their own news.

  18. CarmineD - "Please detail what progress that President Obama and the House/Senate while democrat controlled was blocked by the GOP."

    137 filibusters in 2009-2010 coming near the all time record of 139 set in 2007-2008.

    http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/referen...

    Senate Republicans blocked Campaign Spending Act, filibustered the Buffett Rule, orinally blocked Student Loan Bill, the Paycheck Fairness Act, Tax on Companies that ship jobs overseas, Subpoena Power for the Committee investigating the BP Oil Spill, The Small Business Jobs Act, The DREAM Act, Repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell was blocked by all Republicans but two, John McCain led the filibuster of the Defense Appropriations Act, Senator Franken's Anti-Rape Amendment to the Defense Appropriations Bill, Benefits for Homeless Veterans, Affordable Health Care For America Act, Health Care for the 9/11 First Responders who got sick from being at Ground Zero, The Jobs Bill, Wall Street Reform, multiple unemployment benefits, and on and on.

  19. Vernos,

    It is multi faceted issue but there is really only a part of it that we can control. People WILL manipulate a system if they can. Many voters are just stupid. But we do have the vote and we should use it directly to punish all those in Congress (which is all of them) who perpetuate the corrupt lobbyist system and sell legislation for money and support.

    I do have to take issue with you about Fox. They are biased, no doubt, but no more than CNN, MSNBC or really any other news outlet I can think of. As for Bachmann and West, their comments have been incendiary and over the top at times but so have the comments made by Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, to name just two.

    Here's a great example of what I mean. President Obama very 'inartfully' made comments about the private sector yesterday. As a fair minded person who does not agree with many of his policies and his philosophy, I could still see that the point he was trying to make was that successful people were assisted by what government provides on their way to becoming successful. His intention was not to denegrate entrpeneurers. Most R's refuse to recognize this.

    On the flip side, the fact that the owner of Bain Capital signed SEC filings after 1999 proves nothing. And even if he participated in a decision or two, it doesn't mean he had any input into outsourcing. Most D's refuse to even entertain that might be true, choosing to believe the worst.

    This is where we are and if we don't move off positions like these, we are really done as the nation I grew up in.

    Michael

  20. RedRocky,

    Government does get all the money it has from taxing. It is also true that without government funding and equally important, coordination, our national highway system would not be as good as it is.

    I find many positive things that government can take some credit for. I also love the private sector and admire what people have done and do on their own initiative.

    The dispute here is how much government do we want. In my view, most D's want too much and most R's want too little. We need real compromise and we just can't seem to get there. In my view, compromise will become possible again once 'enough' of us descend to a standard of living that is unacceptable to us. I don't know when that will be but we are heading in that direction.

    In my opinion, this next election will partly determine whether we go the Western European simi socialized economic route or whether we stay a more free enterprise system.

    There are alot of Americans on the government dole and more being added all the time as the economy struggles and we may have already reached a tipping point where we will not be going back. I hope not but it is a distinct possibility.

    Michael

  21. wtplv - "I do have to take issue with you about Fox. They are biased, no doubt, but no more than CNN, MSNBC or really any other news outlet I can think of."

    Being biased is not quite the same as manufacturing news by editing, relabeling and clipping videos. Fox has been caught several times doing so.

  22. wtplv - "On the flip side, the fact that the owner of Bain Capital signed SEC filings after 1999 proves nothing. And even if he participated in a decision or two, it doesn't mean he had any input into outsourcing."

    One - collecting a salary ($100,000) during that period would indicate one is still working at Bain and if jobs were outsourced, Romney was indeed part of that decision.

    Two - it was Republican candidates that opened that can of worms when they called Romney a vulture capitalist.

    Three - anyone not turning over their tax returns would be ineligible for a cabinet or any other position in gov't. Why should Romney be held to a different status? Is there something he doesn't want us to see.

  23. RedRocky - "Let's call the good government has done the result of being a 'benevolent leech'."

    Wouldn't that make Bush the Lesser a 'benevolent leech' by initiating TARP? Reverse Robin Hood, take from the common folk and give to the rich and banks.

    It's stunning how hypocritical some of you can get.

  24. What Fox clipped, aired and got into fits about:

    OBAMA: If you've got a business, you didn't build that, somebody else made that happen.

    What Obama really said:

    OBAMA: If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business -- you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn't get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

  25. Vernos,

    You make it hard when you won't come half way. What about Ed Schultz? What about the times MSNBC has been caught editing what someone on the right said?

    Come On! Let's just agree to admit that they are all biased and they all invent news at times.

    Michael

  26. Vernos,

    Come half way. If I own a business and I go away to run the Olympics... and I am paid 100,000 while I am away.... what's wrong with that? I OWN the company for gosh sakes.

    Come half way!

    Michael

  27. "Senate Republicans blocked Campaign Spending Act, filibustered the Buffett Rule, orinally blocked Student Loan Bill, the Paycheck Fairness Act,
    Tax on Companies that ship jobs overseas, Subpoena Power for the Committee investigating the BP Oil Spill, The Small Business Jobs Act, The DREAM Act, Repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell was blocked by all Republicans but two, John McCain led the filibuster of the Defense Appropriations Act, Senator Franken's Anti-Rape Amendment to the Defense Appropriations Bill, Benefits for Homeless Veterans, Affordable Health Care For America Act, Health Care for the 9/11 First Responders who got sick from being at Ground Zero, The Jobs Bill, Wall Street Reform, multiple unemployment benefits, and on and on."

    Mr. Branco: You posted this list in response to my question:
    ""Please detail what progress that President Obama and the House/Senate while democrat controlled was blocked by the GOP."

    I'll go through your list quickly and would be happy to detail further in more posts or offline. First, I'm not going to argue the merits of filibustering. Both parties do and the party in power always complains.

    1. Campaign Spending Act: Passed by the Senate 51-44.

    2. Buffett Rule: No bill. Couldn't even pass the House Budget Committee to make it to the floor for debate.

    3. Student Loan Bill: Just recently passed with votes of 373-53 ion the House and 74-19 in Senate. Reps on board in both Houses of Congress.

    4. The Paycheck Fairness Act: House approved Jan 2009; US Sneaqte failed to move it forward.

    5. Tax on Companies that ship jobs overseas: No bill.

    6. Subpoena Power for the Committee investigating the BP Oil Spill: House passed 420 to 1. Senate blocked because it felt only Congress and not a Commission should have subpoena power. Legitimate argument IMHO.

    7. The Small Business Jobs Act: Passed by 111th Congress an signed into law Sept 2010.

    8. The DREAM Act: Has been in existence since 2001. Reintro in 2009 by Rep Orin Hatch. President signed an EO June 15 instituting it. Moot point.

    9. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell": DADT passed Senate 65-31. 2 Rep Senators crossed the aisle to vote with Dems. Ensign from Nevada was one. Signed into law Dec 2010.

    10. Senator Franken's Anti-Rape Amendment: Passed Dec 2009.

    11. Benefits for Homeless Veterans: No bill.

    12. Affordable Health Care For America Act: Won't go ther now. Will in the future. Reps are taking the offensive to repeal. And if they can in the next 2 years, they will.

    13. Health Care for the 9/11 First Responders: Goes back to 2005. House passed Dec 2010. Senate had a problem with how the $7.5 Billion would be piad out. resolved and passed. President Obama signed Jan 2011.

    14. The Jobs Bill: Dems balked and sided with Reps.

    15. Wall Street Reform: Passed July 2010 except for the Volcker rule which has an extension.

    Any more?

    CarmineD

  28. Neither Democrats nor Republicans are going to give an inch for the People.

    So, expect the worst.

    Michael, I agree with your comments, but I would probably get more radical regarding lobbyists.

    Yes, when the vast majority reach an intolerable level of discomfort and/or suffering, there will be a change. However, that will happen only if further limitations of civil rights are not instituted to ensure the status quo, thus preventing a change.

    That isn't as unlikely as it seems, since both parties have done some pretty terrible things to make sure substantial change doesn't happen in the future.

    I just hope there is a responsible, sensible and viable third party ready to run a full slate of candidates so we have a real chance of making the changes necessary to return our government to sanity, and perhaps the citizens.

    It does look like the prediction that we would "fall from within" is correct. We are well on our way as a result of both parties and the people who elect them.

    Another bit of human nature is to almost never admit when we are wrong, or at least until someone or something removes the blinders from our eyes and we actually begin to see beyond our narrowed perspectives.

    Partisan politics is like wearing blinders at this point.

  29. "Romney turned over 12 years of tax returns to "

    Actually 20 years when McCain's staff vetted Romney for VP. And McCain said there was nothing wrong with them.

    You know if Romney releases as many as asked, more will be asked. And so on. It's the way the White House and this President's campaign keeps the GOP running after rabbits instead of focusing on his record and issues. The returns will be released in due time. And they will take the wind out of the only limp sail that Obama's ship of state has.

    CarmineD

  30. And then we have Jeffery who condems others for judging but doesn't follow his own advice. I think they have a word oft times used in the Bible by Jesus to describe the Scribes and Pharisees and Jeffery to a "T."

    CarmineD

  31. The truth Jeffery is after having put alot of blood, sweat, tears and unions dues [and alot of them] into AFSCME I collect no benefits from it. And I care not that I don't.

    CarmineD

  32. Good video Stephenrblv. I enjoyed. Worth the viewing. Thanks

    CarmineD

  33. El Lobo;

    You didn't even get an honorable mention from Jeffery. The laugh is on you. Better than reading the funny papers.

    If you have an opinion/fact to contradict me in all that funny commentary you post, print it and I'll respond. If not I'll just keeping laughing. It's up to you. Either way it's entertaining for me.

    CarmineD

  34. While some here call the GOP the party of no, and fear mongerers, and obstructionists, the Dems are about to let the US go over the economic cliff over taxes. Where's the outrage when your party and its leaders are holding the nation and Americans hostage to make a partisan political deal?

    I'm thinking about that word again that Jesus always uses in the Bible when he talks about the Pharisees and Scribes. Describes some here to a "T."

    CarmineD

  35. Jeffery:

    You post alot of verbiage with nothing of interest.

    El Lobo:

    You're incoherent.

    CarmineD

  36. The posters here who are always saying that small businesses will be taxed out of business never say anything about WalMart. You know, the WalMart that destroyed so many small stores and manufacturers all over America and started the out-sourcing boom, the WalMart that hired undocumented workers, the WalMart accused of bribery in Mexico and South America, the WalMart that advises their low-wage employees to get food stamps and Medicaid. Yes, that WalMart, owned by the WalMart family. Well, listen to this, WalMart shoppers:

    On the News With Thom Hartmann: Walmart Heirs Have More Wealth Than 41 Percent of American Families - Combined, and More
    "According to data from the Federal Reserve, median family wealth in America dropped by nearly 40% between 2007 and 2010. But, during that same (period), the wealth of the Walton family increased 22% to nearly $90 billion. So now, the six Walton heirs have more wealth than 48 million American families -- or more than 41% of all American families -- COMBINED. And yet, despite the incredible wealth disparity -- Republicans in Congress are pushing for even more tax breaks for the Wal Mart heirs -- and other millionaires and billionaires who fund Republican candidates."
    On the News With Thom Hartmann, By Thom Hartmann, The Thom Hartmann Program | News Report Wednesday, 18 July 2012 15:36
    http://truth-out.org/news/item/10418-on-...

  37. teamster:

    I'm no WalMart shopper, either. WalMart caused the demise of almost all my hometown's locally-owned stores.

  38. "Carmine is doing what he does best..."

    Yes. Addressing the issues and stating the facts. Sadly, those that can't resort to personal attacks.

    CarmineD

  39. "I hear a lot of Christian talk. And, once again, the stairway to heaven does not have an ATM machine. So, good luck with that one."

    The path to hell is paved with good intentions. To quote a more commonly stated one.

    CarmineD